What Games Teach Us
Basically I hate gaming. From time to time I will try some game but I will get bored very soon. Also the way I play games, cannot be considered "normal" as I am trying to always abuse the game world and if the game world is limiting me in the way I want to play game then I am no more interested in playing it.
Anyway, recently I have tried 3 more games: Sim City Societies, City Life 2008 Edition and Virtual Villagers 2.
While Sim City games were fun Sim City Societies is next to garbage. There is nothing in this game that makes me want to play it again. What I have learned from this game is:
1. Work availability does not impact growing population. People move in only if they have place to live.
2. Buying TVs in supermarkets (and in general frequent visits to supermarkets) turns jobless people living in slums to very happy
Game is plainly stupid as watching patchinko (or whatever is called this gambling game popular in Japan when one gets 2 pounds of steel balls, drops them into funnel on top of machine and watches those noisy balls falling down for 5 seconds and can win a pack of crackers).
Also EA really needs to hire people who can write programs. Definitely this game is not the fastest. After having mid size city the game is snail speed at dual core CPU with high end graphics card with all the effects set to lowest possible.
City Life 2008 is not bad. Just after building 10 cities one knows how to do it quickly and get millions of money quickly. The game teach us nothing. Maybe except that if we build 200 jewelery shops in one area then the apartment skyscrapers will grow like a crazy around it. Slightly more playable than Sim City Societies but not much. However much better coded.
And then Virtual Villagers 2. Low end graphics but very playable game. You just play it 5 minutes every few hours as the game lives in real time even if your machine is turned off. You just tell people to build a hut and the do. Basically game is fun. I am currently enjoying it and... the game teaches me many things.
I have already learned from this game that to keep society growing and alive... women must be pregnant and nursing babies while they can (so basically from 18 to 50 years old they should be busy with kids). Pretty chauvinistic thing as for game. Probably this game will get banned in EU as it does not promote career model for women and gay marriages. :)
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Ehhhhhh, I remember you
Ehhhhhh, I remember you played warcraft 3 and were afraid to use your hero units =)
While the whole design of of warcraft3 is based on levelling the heroes and using them in battles.
What did that teach you? =)
That it is hard to teach
That it is hard to teach ogres to have sex with their hero!
..as I thought, games are
..as I thought, games are boring !
right, cut the branch that
right, cut the branch that you are sitting on =)
Well, 3D graphics and coding
Well, 3D graphics and coding in general aren't boring 8P
That's why you don't do it
That's why you don't do it anymore :P
I do ! MF !
I do ! MF !
Directorator vs
Directorator vs Conferenceopresentationator.
Hey Duddie, check out this
Hey Duddie, check out this lecture. I think the guy's right on about a lot things with the current issues/problems in games: Audio and Slides for Jonathan Blow’s lecture at MIGS 2007, “Design Reboot”. It's nice to see that some people are at least voicing out some things that a lot of other people have been thinking.
Fantasy Island
I didn't listen to the mp3 because it's too long. From the slides however I don't see much new.
It seems like that person somehow got bored of games: welcome to the club 8)
Games (puzzle games aside) are only a poor replacement for real life. Eventually we'd get enough technology to achieve something like that Fantasy Island serial TV.. which 30 years ago was already hinting that shortcuts in life don't help in the long run. Customers would go there to "play" and usually end up with an unexpected view of things.
Still Fantasy Island seemed to be therapeutic, so I guess games in the future can be therapeutic too.. maybe 8) ..but possibly very addictive.
The mp3's only about 1hr
The mp3's only about 1hr long. How do you survive all those conferences you go to? I've already listened to the mp3 twice already (once while coding @ work and again while on the train). 8P I don't think the Power Point does any justice to what's discussed on the mp3's though. The main jist wasn't trying to push or make games a replacement for real life (which was amongst the things he complained about), but rather making games have more meaning or value on the same level as other popular forms of media such music, books, and cinema. For example, WoW is a very popular (and apparently addictive game), but the speaker wasn't too thrilled about the game and even actually felt that the game is potentially harmful to people. Obviously, no one is wanting music, books, or cinema to replace their real life, but those other forms of media always directly (or indirectly) contribute to life in general in a "meaningful" way ("meaningful" will vary from person to person).
My gripe with games is really that (for the most part) "fun" game design stalled back in the 16-bit era and when 3D came around, much of the effort was placed on ramping up the technology. While there will still be changes and upgrades in the technology, I think the real future in games is ultimately (and of course obviously) the game design. Technology will still have it's place, but it will be more in the background. It's kind of like how it currently is with movies; people ultimately like or hate the movie because of the story, character development, and whatnot and rarely complain about the technology used to make it (unless the technological execution and usage was really poor or ruined the movie itself).
P.S.
A side note about the 16-bit era: I recall this "unleashed" feeling that I got from playing sequels of games that had their origins during the 8-bit era. Back then, the advancement of technology actually allowed the games to do more (design-wise and of course visually). This is a personal preference of mine, but (for example), Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse for the NES was a pretty groundbreaking game (given the technological limitations of the NES) both design-wise and technologically. When Super Castlevania IV was released for the SNES, it literally was super (though they used "super" because that was part of the SNES' name). Design-wise, and technologically, it was an impressive first "next-gen" attempt for the series at the time. Of course, that all hit a peak with Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Once that series went 3D, it went downhill and still (to this day) there has been a 3D version of the game that matched the gameplay of the 2D counterparts. Which might somewhat explain why the series has stayed mainly 2D. The same shift from "8-bit great" to "16-bit" amazing happened with Super C and Super Contra III: Alien Wars (personally, I think the NES version of Super C was a lot more fun than the original arcade version). There are many other examples.
I think what made the games back then "fun" was really more that the technology and high cost of producing the game media (ROM) of the time placed some limits on the game designs so designers really had to come up with "fun" and interesting designs because they couldn't do "everything" in the sense that today's technology and media production costs (DVD or online download). I think the problem with today's games isn't because they're 3D, but mainly that the efforts behind the technology which drives these games tends to take the forefront. I really feel that a lot of the Xbox 360 or PS3 games out there now are just more graphical "upgrades" of their Xbox or PS2 counterparts with the "next-gen" gameplay being simply more characters on screen because it's now technologically possible to do that. It's the main reason why I only (currently) own a Wii because it provides a potentially new way to experience games.
Ultimately though, I think it's how game designers choose to design their games.
P.P.S.
I just recalled Shadow of the Beast for the Amiga. It was technologically amazing for it's time, but a really tough game ... with some serious design flaws. But the graphics and sound were so amazing, one was compelled to put up with the insane difficulty. I recall playing ports of the game to other systems not having that Amiga epic feeling. 8P
Married game designers
Shadows of the beast was only a nice looking game made to be running at 50 Hz (actually ran at 60 for American NTSC guys ?) with N (2-3 ?) level of parallax. It meant no playability that I know of.
As for the mp3.. 1 hour is a long time !!!
This guy got tired of stupid video games and he's trying to make sense of his life since he's a game designer. Well.. tough luck ! Go fuck yourself mr game designer, you get no pity from me !!! I don't care.. he can say whatever. I think he's probably some married guy that wants to get out of his complex family life. ..My advice is to get a life !!! Get a fucking life, find a job you like.. games are stupid.. big fucking discovery !!!
They can be fun, as fun as reading a book.. but they are no replacement for real life. Maybe he wants to escape and get laid somewhere else.. then he should find a better way than stressing people with Power Point slides and 1 hour long presentations or mp3 files.
Fuck.. he can listen to my mp3 files when and if I decide to make one.
Be on the top or be topped..
Revelations of another kind ...
but they are no replacement for real life
He never said they are nor wanted them to be!
Hmm ... not sure why all the strong words. It sounds like you might be projecting your own frustrations onto the guy. 8P I think all he's really trying to say is that games can be better and he's not satisfied with the current state of things ... just as much as you would want to improve your math skills or something that you feel isn't "good enough". If you listened to the mp3 (which of course you didn't!), you'll quickly realize that he's purely talking about game design and not trying to make sense of his life ... besides ... he's not married and the guy's a programmer. 8P Anyway, I originally posted this because I felt it related to what Duddie had written.
Ok ... I go into hibernation now ... it's winter time ... this lion's taking on the form of a bear.
I think human mind has
I think human mind has emotional need to escape into your 'fantasy island' domain, so that it can stop thinking about everyday life issues and thus recharge itself. Thats the most important benefit of any entertainment. Computer games provide that escape. Same with movies, books, music... When you watch a movie or read a fictional book, your mind is fully occupied with events that occur outside reality.
So if you say games are stupid then you might as well say books, movies and music are stupid too.
Granted each industry has its share of bullshit. There are some books out there that are not even worth looking at. Same goes for games...
Maybe thats why I mostly play selected multiplayer games. Where the game itself is only a media for you compete vs other live people.
Final game
You need to escape into a game if you have nothing better to do. It would be better if one could go for a trip withou a notice, to leave the office and go to a park, drive a Ferrari, do whatever.
But most people can't and so they have to play games. Games are instant fun, but also subdued fun. It's all virtual and the AI is stupid as sin. Your Ferrari is as glamorous as a bunch of polygons 8)
There are very stupid movies too (I don't normally read books). Movies however look less dumb. Moving around with a joystick is bound to make one look dumb.. and the stories, the art, is usually crappy when compared to a movie.
Games can be fun, but they are also mostly a big waste of time, unless one is getting some sort of inspiration.. for for every minute of inspiration one could be reading a paper, thinking something out, writing on a forum to share ideas, be with a nice woman.... an infinite list of things that an adult can and should do.
As I kid I had only video games and crappy home computers to code in BASIC, now I have powerful computers that can give me money and power.
Life is a game to, it's the game.. the one I want to play well !
Right... And thats exactly
Right...
And thats exactly why in your own words: "you stay up until 4am every night doing 'computer stuff'"
Not every night.. yesterday
Not every night.. yesterday I went at 3 am 8)
My "computer stuff" is a different than playing games. I work with web dev bullshit to make sure I can keep in touch with friends and family and learn something about a field that is a potential good business, something that could possibly improve my life.
Playing games instead is mostly entertainment and hardly a good form of business or communication. Yeah you can make friends with online games, but there are better forms of communication.
Uummmmm..... Thats what you
Uummmmm.....
Thats what you say to justify it to yourself. But in the end its just procrastination =)
Progdesigner
As far as we are concerned he's a game designer because he made a presentation about game design.
I listened to the first 2 minutes until I realized it was 1 hour long. You can say great things in 10-20 minutes.. 1 hour is a very long time, especially considering the crappy slides that convey nothing new.
I'm sure his considerations can fit in 2-3 slides.. no need to sit and listen to a stranger programmer that wants to be a game designer.
If you know what great ideas he comes up with, please let me know.. but I won't listen to some random dude for 1 hour !!
I'd rather listen to 3 TED Talks.
He mentions how game industry is in his infancy.. yeah I can tell, if people like him can go around giving lectures.. ..become a pro and then call again !
TED ... Schmed
Yeah ... I've listen to those TED Talks too. A lot of interesting ideas, but at the end of the day it's about execution rather than speculating on how things could be. One thing I tend to do is to try to keep myself honest intellectually. It's very easy to spend one's time filling the brain with great ideas then return to the ho-hum normal day existence that most people on the planet take part in. At least to Jonathan Blow's credit, he'll be releasing a game that is based on the experiences which he speaks about in his lecture. Whether his game succeeds or not is another story; at least he's making an effort and it's just not all talk like how it is most of the time. There's no point in letting you know if he comes up with great ideas; you've expressed no interest in games and I can only imagine that if I did tell you about the ideas, you'd like react in the same way as you have.
While the TED Talks are a good outlet for great ideas, there's also a lot of intellectual posing and ranting ... Anyways, it's not like it really matters. Most of us who listen to the TED Talks will ultimately do nothing about what we hear and go on about our "normal" lives. All I can say is "Welcome to the 'Market of Ideas' my friend". TED too is nothing new ... it's just information all gathered into one place. As with any kind of media consumption, if one is careful it can ultimately be a waste of time. 8P
Here's a nice example of the "ultimate waste of time" I'm talking about: Aubrey de Grey: Why we age and how we can avoid it. Eventually, the speaker will get old and will die like every other human being that got old and died. 8P
Ugh ... I meant to say if
Ugh ... I meant to say if one is NOT careful it can ultimately be a waste of (one's) time.